Everyone's A Racist?

[logansrogue]

Was reading that little argument here. I've heard that one a lot from people who are accused of being racist.

Now, I have a really hard time with that argument. Cause I honestly don't think I'm racist. I'm definitely ignorant of some cultures, but I'm very eager to learn about other people's ways of doing things, I find it all very enriching and wonderful. I may have certain prejudices, but they're most certainly not based on race.

So what do you think about that argument? I'd like to know.

Comments

[fengi.livejournal.com]

So I take it he used the name "Pablo" before?

Doesn't change how he's the sort of whiny asshole customer retails sorts love to give bad service because they fail at basic social skills are transparently condescending. You can tell these sorts are mentally calling you names (such as "Pablo", or "peon" if you're not a minority) and you delight in giving them the shitty service he deserves.

I've never had problems with service at Best Buy. But then I'm not a bottom dwelling gamer shithead.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

Here's what I wish I could have posted:

Ah, so you're one of those "everybody does it" excuse makers. Everybody poos as well, but most realize you're not supposed to crap your pants in public. Many learn to recognize it an cope.

Y'know whom I'm racist against - entitled shithead gamers lacking in social skills who spout bigoted epithets when they get the bad service they deserve.

This person is the whiny asshole customer retails sorts loathe, openly condescending and impatient from the get go and put upon if they don't get their greedy baby needs met from moment one.

You can tell these sorts are mentally calling you names ("Pablo" or other racist crap if you're a minority, "peon" if you're not)and you delight in denying them service.

I've never had problems with service at Best Buy. But then I'm not a bottom dwelling gamer.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I know, I know. It was so painful reading that, I was really mad. It was patently unneccessary, you know?

We don't have Best Buy in my area (possibly not even my country) so I have no idea about their quality of service! :T

[nephron.livejournal.com]

Absolutely I believe that all white people are racist- that doesn't mean that all white people hate people of colour, but everyone has prejudices even if they don't recognise them.

That doesn't mean it is OK.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

And see, now you are are being racist by saying it is only white people that are racist. If everyone has prejudices, *everyone* has prejudices.

[nephron.livejournal.com]

Ah, now there we are looking at the definition of racism differently- you are viewing any racially-based prejudice as racism, whereas I am using the "predjudice + power" definition of racism.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

We are not humpty dumpty, and words do not mean just what we want them to mean. If you've redefined racism so some of what the dictionary says is racism isn't racism any more, it is only going to lead to confusion. The concept of privilege is a useful expansion to the understanding of racism, but it doesn't supercede its meaning entirely. In other words, I think it is useful to say that power + privilege equals intrinsic racism, but that doesn't mean overt and explicit racial discrimination somehow isn't racist anymore.

But in any case -- by any definition, power and privilege isn't exclusive to white people, nor are all white people . There are people who aren't white who enjoy plenty of privilege, and there are white ethnic groups who suffer from it.

[nephron.livejournal.com]

The power + predjudice = racism isn't my own invention- it is a, if not the standard academic definition. It is useful because the prejudice of one person backed up by power is much more damaging than the prejudice of someone who has little.

by any definition, power and privilege isn't exclusive to white people, nor are all white people

I guess you meant to add privileged or something similar on the end of that? And absolutely, power and privilege are not exclusive to white people. Being white in Australian society is only one form of privilege, and there are many others (class, gender, ablism etc.), but even if you are a poor white Australian you still have advantages over a poor aboriginal Australian. Some white ethnic groups in Australia do suffer more prejudice than others- but I can't think of any white ethnic groups that are the target of as much prejudice as aboriginal people, or black Africans (I'm aware that's a continent, not a country).

And yes, non-white people cam enjoy a lot of privilege, but in the words of one of my coworkers, "That doctor is one of those Asians, you know. Lots of book-smarts but she has no common sense."

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

The power + predjudice = racism isn't my own invention- it is a, if not the standard academic definition.
But my point is that the academic definition isn't intended to supercede the idea of racism as racial discrimination, but to explicate its subtler effects, and make clear some of its mechanisms. To quote one of the standard academic (sociological) definitions "Racist systems include, but cannot be reduced to, racial bigotry," -- simple racial bigotry remains racism, however, the academics are just pointing out that if race wasn't part of a system of power and privilege, then racial bigotry would make no sense. And racism might underly the system, but it isn't necessary that you enjoy power and privilege to be racist (blacks who hate jews and jews who hate blacks are both still racist).

And in any case, saying that someone benefits from racism, or is part of a racist society, isn't the same as saying that someone is racist. Its a misuse of the argument, IMO. Academic definitions, if nothing else, are about precision of meaning.

Being white in Australian
You said 'all white people' not 'all Australian white people' for a start. The Irish in the UK are just one example of a group that has experienced comparable racism (Johhny Rottens autobiography, for example, was titled 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish' after the signs on boarding houses). I have had Irish friends tell me they never felt like part of the dominant racial group due to constant discrimination as children.

Another example is Ashkenazi jews.

Enjoying some privilege =/= racist. And being white isn't a guarantee of enjoying an immunity to racism.

even if you are a poor white Australian you still have advantages over a poor aboriginal Australian
In general, yes, aboriginal Australia is in a shocking state. But 'not being in grinding poverty' isn't the same as 'racist'. If you are a poor Vietnamese Australian, chances are you are a lot better off as well.

And, FWIW, anecdotal evidence of abuse of any ethnic group proves nothing. I've heard plenty of racial abuse of white people too, and been the recipient of some for that matter. And it remains racism, even when addressed from the less privileged to the more.

[nephron.livejournal.com]

Prejudice between two or more oppressed groups is a difficult case, and one I'm not remotely equipped to argue- there are blogs that have spent some time discussing this, I'll point you to them if you want.

And in any case, saying that someone benefits from racism, or is part of a racist society, isn't the same as saying that someone is racist. Its a misuse of the argument, IMO. Academic definitions, if nothing else, are about precision of meaning.

No, it's not neccessarily the same thing, although again, there is a lot of discussion about this topic. However, I would argue that all white Australians have a degree of internalised prejudice against, say, aboriginal Australians- no matter how much they try to fix it. White Australians are also complicit in the oppression of other people, because we let it continue.

You said 'all white people' not 'all Australian white people' for a start.
I suspect it is true of all white people in Western countries, if not elsewhere. I am less able to speak about the experiences in countries other than Australia.

The Irish in the UK are just one example of a group that has experienced comparable racism
Do you think Irish people in the UK continue to suffer the same prejudice that UK-born black people do?

In general, yes, aboriginal Australia is in a shocking state. But 'not being in grinding poverty' isn't the same as 'racist'.
Well, yes and no- the systems that keep aboriginal Australians in poverty are partly based in racism, though I know there are many, many other factors involved. Shift it to two minimum-wage workers though, one white and one aboriginal, and the aboriginal person is still at a disadvantage.

If you are a poor Vietnamese Australian, chances are you are a lot better off as well.
Yup. The stereotypes and particular flavour of prejudice aimed at different ethnic groups, as well as all of the larger dysfunctional systems, will change different ethnic groups' situations.

And, FWIW, anecdotal evidence of abuse of any ethnic group proves nothing.
It is an anecdote to illustrate the issue. I have never once heard nurses attribute what a white doctor did to their race, but I have heard it about doctors (and nurses, and domestics, and so on) from other ethnicities many many times. Have you not noticed that pattern?

Akward

[flyingreptile.livejournal.com]

I was asked in Europe if Australians were rascist, and seemed to have difficulty explaining that on the one hand Australia did have a race relations problem but on the other hand I found it implausible that were any Australian politians refering to the Aborigines as "the Aborigine problem".

The word rascist seems to obsure more than it reveals. You could say that both Winston Churchill and Hitler were both white male racists, but what use is this information? I don't think you can really be non-racist anymore than you can really have a zero blood alchohol level. Saying X are or are not racist seems to be pointless unless you quantify what level of racism you are talking about. Even then quantifying the actual damage caused and how to mitigate it seems more useful.

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

*Ultimately* these things always get down to fine points of definition. Technically, if you understand that culture is the primary determinant of human behaviour, and think there are very few differences between people that are due to race/genetics, you are probably aren't racist. But a lot of people define racism more broadly, to include having subconscious prejudices, to drawing attention to race unnecessarily, and so on. On broader definitions, either almost everyone or everyone is racist.

Personally, I think defining racist too broadly isn't particularly useful, so I wuldn't say 'we are all racist', but I would say we can all behave in a racist way unless we try very hard not too. If you think you aren't racist, that probably means you are only racist occasionally, probably without even realising it.

[wiccarowan.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid to say that the first thing to spring to mind was this.

[sir-devans.livejournal.com]

Racism isn't ignorance, or the misjudgements made about a person because of ignorance. Its the intolerance and hatred based in the ignorant belief that someone is fundementally different from you merely because of their race.