Vindication at last!

[logansrogue]

Yes, I know a lot of you are fans of Cassie Claire's work.

Here is why I never was.

And that's all I'm saying about that.

Comments

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

Wow, lots of examples of phrasing that seems to have been lifted directly from published works, not to mention TV.

I never managed to get into DT. I read about 10-12 chapters of Draco Dormiens, but there was more Draco in it than I was interested in back then, so I dropped it.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I couldn't read for all the line lifting. It annoyed me, especially since a lot of writers I knew (and myself) were busting our balls to write our own witty lines and all she had to do was nick hers from her favourite show and she got the credit.

I despise dishonesty.

[myemmie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, see, I'm a little wierded out myself about the whole thing. I just came into fandom a year or so ago (online) and so at that point this was all in the waaay past. I noticed some of the lifted lines, but with the disclaimers that she had, it seemed to be more of her "thing" - like a game. And so I took it to be that a LOT of the story was that way, purposefully....I just didn't know all the lines, so I didn't "get" it all.

Now I'm reading that, and while it still makes sense...I dunno. And I feel like there's a lot of missing pieces, too. I don't really know Cassie, but Lori stands up for her, and that says a lot to me.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I know Lori does, and it's something that I respectfully disagree with her upon.

All I'm saying is that I'm not a fan of her writing. I'm not saying anything about Cassie's character. I can't because I don't know her.

[venus-ice.livejournal.com]

lol. more BNF drama? this stuff gets old fast. i've never read her work though. I asked once and people told me don't bother. it's pre-ootp anyway. bleh.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I know. It pays NOT to be a BNF these days.

I'm sure I'm one of the people that told you not to bother. LOL!

My comments = tl;dr

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

Geez...

No offense, but is there something in the water over in HP Land?

Coming from someone struggling to improve their on work with sheer willpower, UGH. The lifting is bad enough, but the logic hurts me brain!

I can understand making pop culture references, especially if you're writing for a fandom that relies on pop culture. I played the reference game in Mystery Science Theater, Red Green, etc, but it, you know, worked in those fandoms.

From what I remember of the first few HP books, the stories were more wrapped up in the Wizard culture JKR created, to the point where the "Muggle" culture drops completely into the background. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of fanbrats don't understand that Harry enters Hogwarts in 1991 because there's very few points of reference for them to latch onto. Even if there's crossover between Wizard and Muggle media, is Draco really going to be quoting Muggle media?

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

You know, I think the staple diet here in potter land is 'batshit'. Seriously. There's a small bunch of people that aren't of that variety, and thankfully I'm friends with a good number of them.

The Draco series just never made any sense to me, hence I didn't read them. I had all the problems with it you've just raised. I didn't realise how far CC went with the lifting.

But all this BNF ratting assures me of one thing: Karma IS a bitch, and she knows where to find you.

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[starfyre01.livejournal.com]

I just say the following for the ending of HP:

Rocks fall. They all die. It'd serve the batshit ones right :-P I'm so glad I never was in the fandom. Wow...

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

My bet for the ending is that James Potter is going to wake up the next morning and discover that it's still the 1970s and that EVERYTHING from the books and the whole wizard world was a bad dream caused by some very bad weed.

He then goes off to hang out with the rest of the Marauders and their new friends Pam and Bobby, who are exchange students from Texas.

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[starfyre01.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO! That'd be even better!

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I like that ending. :D

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

I heard of CC's big Draco series in passing from my sister, but she neither of us has actually read the whole beast. When she was a big HP fan it was just very hard to avoid hearing about how wonderful CC's work was. Most of my past knowledge of her comes from the laptop and iPod messes, which were pretty "WTF?".

If Karma really was a bitch, I want to see how her book deal goes down, given she has plans of a fictional story based on internet fan culture.

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Who knows. If she's doing it on internet culture, she might just get away with it, which is rather a depressing thought.

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[sl_walker]

Pop culture references are all well and good; I mean, c'mon! I parody a lot of things in my stories. But it's obvious that they are parodies, or sometimes even homages, and not just actual work lifted wholesale and passed off as being my own.

Man, that fandom has some nutbags. Not all, but it's like the entire set of BNFs are crazy.

Re: My comments = tl;dr

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

There's tons of references to pop culture in my works. Heck, there was a whole TTPCTS RR part that's based on a Genesis song because I was drunk that night!

But, while it is in character for Commander Rick to directly quote Star Trek, it's not really in character for Draco Malfoy to directly quote Buffy the Vampire Slayer almost word for word. That just comes across as awkward, even as a reference. Judging from what I've read thus far, most of these "references" are more or less lifting jokes and scenes from elsewhere.

I guess what bothers me is that the report mentions that people were quoting Cassandra Claire's "dialogue" when the actual dialogue was originally from other works. I think a homage ceases to be a homage when your original work is buried in what you're borrowing quotes from.

[esicardi.livejournal.com]

I tried to read DD once and couldn't get past the first cbapter. I just didn't find it interesting. And I never reads anything else from her. It seems I didn't miss much.

[fortuna-juvat.livejournal.com]

You owe me the last hour of my life back. :)

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I owe me a good night's sleep!! ROFLMAO! I love it when shit like this goes down!

[apolla.livejournal.com]

I agree. At first, a very long time ago I found the DT amusing... and then I started counting the number of jokes I recognised.

I work really fucking hard to be funny sometimes. If I ever tell a joke or crack a line that isn't mine, I say so immediately and say whose it is: "That's a Lamarrism you know" for stuff from Never Mind The Buzzcocks, which is what I usually borrow from. When I do my own joking, it's fucking BRILLIANT when I get a laugh! Borrowing jokes is for me, usually a means to something else- telling an interesting bit of rock info or something...

Fandomly speaking, I used two quotes in the penultimate chapter of DDD, which went unread by millions... I DID do the 'let's have a fun time guessing' and then you can bet your arse I printed EXACTLY what they were afterward (only, I just realised, in the review thread for the last chapter. Might fix that!)

For so long I've been "Dude, CC ain't all that!" and the little fangirls have shot me down... If I had realised the sheer epic David Lean scale of it at the time, the ridiculous review or two I left for her at the time would never have been written.

She never did do the 'guessing game' thing. She used the lines and seemed to hope as few people as possible would recognise them.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I know. You're preaching to the choir, honey. I never liked her work and I'd often get vehemently disagreed with. I didn't want to rock the boat so I shut up. I was mad cause I didn't think she was really that funny or clever.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in her professional career.

[apolla.livejournal.com]

I know I'm preaching to the choir... it's just bugged me for a long time, and like you I never bothered correcting most people- what's the fuckin' point?

It's the humour thing that gets me most, always has. I'm actually so riled right now that I actually went and hunted down the one review I ever left her... and even in that I make reference to the fact she's borrowed funny lines.

If you can't be funny on your own, don't fucking do it! Leave it to those of us who do try! I'm not funny all the time, but in those beautiful, shining moments that last in my memory forever when I am, fuckin' hell, I'm proud. And I know that's how Proper Comedians and Proper Comedy Writers feel...

I'm not saying she deserves for her professional career to be ruined or whatever, because she doesn't... but only if she writes her OWN stuff. And ONLY hers.

You know what, actually? The whole thing smacks of her never giving fanfiction or the fandom the respect it deserves. Some people are batshit crazy but we're human beings just the same. We might border on/definitely be obsessive, but that doesn't give her the right to treat us like morons.

Shit, I'm angrier about this than I thought. Off to watch some Kenny Everett. A man so outrageously funny that he wouldn't have been able to find anything in his style to steal even if he wanted to.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Kenny Everett was so purely HIM that he couldn't rip off anyone else if he tried.

And I know what you mean about writing clever lines. When I wrote them in my fics, and people laughed and quoted them back at me - it was like gold.

How could she ever feel good if people did that with stolen lines? It's bizarre!

The only thing she respects is her own ego.

[sl_walker]

You just made me waste hours!

I love you.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I KNOW! I didn't get to bed till 4:30!

[berenicepotter.livejournal.com]

O_o I hardly recognice her name. LOL
I mean, Draco is not a character I care for...so...why bother reading that?

[boomstick.livejournal.com]

The only thing I know her from is The Very Secret Diaries of Lord of the Rings :x

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Mention the diaries not in my presence. LOL!

[boomstick.livejournal.com]

omg omg :x

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I'm kidding. They were cute but I didn't think they were all that and a bucket of chips.

[nousia.livejournal.com]

Whoo boy. I never knew this. =\

Thanks for the link, Nancy.

[windtear.livejournal.com]

I'm of two minds about this.

First off, I admit: I liked the first book. I tried to read the rest, and stopped halfway through the second. I just couldn't enjoy it anymore; it was too uneven and I don't have a mad keen passion for Draco Malfoy (and I consider it a great tribute to Tom Felton that I still don't like Draco, despite loving almost every other role he's done).

Then I watched Buffy and got why so many people were dissing the Draco Trilogy, and stopped following it at all.

So I'm one of the sheep she duped who then wised up. I hate what she did, but I won't deny that before I knew better, I sincerely thought it was a really great work.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

See, I'm a pop culture whore. So I'd been watching Buffy since it started and I've known lines from Red Dwarf back to front since age fifteen. I caught all the references, so I wasn't fooled for a minute.

My sympathies, though. I know how awful it feels to be fooled.

[rainfletcher.livejournal.com]

Holy frig.

So this is the Draco Trilogy that I Absolutely Must Read? That is the Fic By Which All Other HP Fics Must Be Judged?

Man, I'm glad I wasn't around the fandom in those days. Hell, I'm barely around in it now.

I work on my fics. I work hard and I work painstakingly. And every so often it occurs to me that I might be pretty good at this stuff in spite of the fact that I labor in (what by comparison is) anonymity. For someone to gain that level of adulation, adoration and other words ending in -ation for being essentially a thief of words is revolting.

MadLori doesn't know me from Adam, but I've always enjoyed her work and words. It saddens me that she'd side with this person in spite of the overwhelming evidence. (But then again, every population must have its equivalents of Barry Bonds fans.)

Bleh. I need to work on Muse some more. It's been too long.

Thanks for the link, Nace. And thank you for being a better writer than that.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I never bought the hype for a minute. I never compared myself cause I knew there wasn't any point.

And Lori is friends with her, so I find it commendable that she sticks by her friend.

And thanks for enjoying my writing.

[zebeckras.livejournal.com]

Never having been in HP fandom nor read more than (maybe) two fanfics at the recommendation of someone else - and I can't remember who wrote them (lol) - I *STILL* know who she is. And I know because back in 2001, I believe it was, Kawy brought it to the attention of myself and other Buffy fans that CC was writing this epic which was enjoyable but it was only enjoyable because Draco was Spike, and Kawy liked Spike. It was driving her buggy that all these lines were stolen. It irked me too but I thought, well, *I* tend to quote things in a lot of my fics too, and I don't necessarily always annotate which line came from where. I figured it was on a different scale, sure, but about the same. And when someone said "we should SUE!!" I said that was kind of silly because it was just line referencing, lots of people do it, etc.

At the same time I have, for years now, associated her name with overhyped fanfic, overuse of pop culture references, and the ultimate in fanbrats. *G*

Little did I know that not only was her line referencing on a different scale (and it really, really is - for one thing I usually only used lines when they were genuinely in character, at least, once I got to be over 17 that's true anyway, and for another thing most of my dialogue was genuinely my own, not a Spot-the-Reference joke) but there was ACTUAL plagiarism involved. I mean wow. I'm so glad I've started reading this... It's hard to believe that she thinks she can call that "inspiration" or "homage". Even as a stupid teenager I knew that doing a search-and-replace on names didn't make a fanfic my own; so she put a little more effort into it than that, sure, but it really does amount to the same thing. There really IS enough non-original material in there. And she's an adult!? Yeesh.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, kinda makes me ill.

It's not just a homage, Zeb. It's a *pastiche*!

[starfyre01.livejournal.com]

*snerks*

I first heard about her when her fans bought her an iPod and then a laptop and it got Fandom Wanked. Then... I heard about the other stuff. Great googly moogly.

[budgiesmuggler.livejournal.com]

oh man, I thought she was the bees knees when I was 14/15, which I am totally ashamed of.

I haven't read the DT in AAAAGES, and I think I lost interest at some point in DV when the 50 billion pages of aimless, self-indulgent meanderings became too much.

I admit that I didn't notice the quotes, and was quite disappointed to later find out that the *BEST* parts of the story were ALL lifted from TV shows. The only positive is that the fic got me into shows like Buffy and Red Dwarf, with which I had never been familiar. It's awesome.

Anyway, it's nice to see a little justice. I remember thinking that it was awfully bullshittish to not make clearer reference to who has 'inspired' you.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I do remember you liking her. I think you even recommended me the fics at one point. But it's okay - she duped a lot of people. Don't feel bad.