The Debating Move that is a Veiled Threat.

[logansrogue]

So, I was on the website that is possibly one of the worst places to debate with someone. No, not Youtube. Facebook. I walked willingly into the trap of debating with someone about a political issue that’s hot right now that is very personal for me. The disability pension, and how it will be affected by increased GST on internet-bought goods. My stand? It will make things worse for me, not better. How did I come to this conclusion? I’ve lived as a woman on a disability pension for roughly four years, and I’ve had a nephew who was on the disability pension for his whole life too. Tax hikes do not result in more pay for us disabled folk. No. In fact, it’s a rare and wonderful day that our pay gets increased. Kind of like spotting a unicorn.

So you can imagine my ire and disgust when the dude I was debating with pulls out the old, “You think you have it bad, imagine what it’s like in [insert less fortunate country here].” His examples were Zimbabwe and the US. Yes, America, your shit has gotten so serious that privileged douchebags in other countries are using your social security system to scare the bad minority folk who don’t put up and shut up.

Now, this tactic caused me some pause. I wasn’t really mad. I explained that am aware of what it was like for them. Of course I do - I’m a progressive who is passionate about social justice. I care about the world. If I can help, I do. I don’t know what it’s like personally, but I do read up on how others are treated.

And then I really thought about the tactic in a more general sense. I have come across this so many times when a group of privileged people are called on their treatment of a discriminated minority.

“You think we’re treating you badly, how about [insert other group here].”

And there’s so many horrible ways to take that. What are they trying to say? Are they trying to deflect blame? Are they trying to say that they’re not bad at all? Or is it something a little more disturbing?

Systematically, unconsciously, is it a group in power saying, “You have it good here. We treat you well. It could be so much worse for you.”

Is that what they really mean?

Be quiet? Don’t complain. Be thankful for what you have, because we’re giving it to you out of the kindness of our hearts and nothing else. It’s not like you’re entitled to it or anything.

Some mightn’t mean anything dark or sinister by this tactic, but it doesn’t matter. Because when I hear this tactic, it strikes fear in me. It’s an angry master pointing at the less fortunate and saying, “That could happen to YOU. BE GLAD. SUCK IT UP.”

It doesn’t make me feel better about my situation. It’s a tactic clearly meant to silence people. It’s effective in silencing people because it’s a tactic of striking fear into people.

That’s a dark fucking thing, you know. That’s some seriously oppressive shit. And you know what? I’m never accepting it as a valid line of debate ever, ever again. I will call a motherfucker on that tactic every time I see it. Because IT’S REALLY FUCKING WRONG.

I don’t think anyone should accept it. So if you see some douchebag using it, call ‘em out on that shit. It’s not right, and I’m not taking it anymore. You shouldn’t have to either.

Comments

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

when I use it, it's usually on myself, or close friends, and not as a debate/silencer, but as a "look on the bright side, it could be worse" kinda thing. which it clearly isn't in the currect case :(

[babalon-93.livejournal.com]

while the intent is clearly different and well meaning here, it is actually pretty much the same in effect. We very commonly use this as a way to silence *ourselves*.

Worth thinking about I reckon :)

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

yeah, I guess you're right... I prefer to think of it as trying to make myself/someone else feel better rather than to get them to shut up though.

[drbunsen.livejournal.com]

Nice shop you've got here. Pity if anything were to ... happen to it.

Well said. I've been troubled by the logical fail of that argument before, but never really known how to counter it. You're right, there is something much, much darker at work.

[boomstick.livejournal.com]

I hate the "it could be worse" argument. Just because it's worse somewhere else doesn't mean it's good here. Of course it's worse somewhere else, it almost always will be. That entire argument implies that nobody should say or do anything until you fall to the bottom of the barrel. Horrible strategy.

I also find it kinda funny and kinda sad that my country is an example of suckiness by other countries, lmao.

[wiccarowan.livejournal.com]

Oddly, I remember this sort of thing being the point where I realised my marriage was firmly down the bog. I found myself saying, "But it could be so much worse. At least he doesn't hit me."

Just because it could be worse does NOT mean that it is currently fine. There is always someone worse off. You still have the right to complain if things are crap.

I'm Really, Really Sorry

[bizarre.livejournal.com]

But I Had To

[asweetdownfall.livejournal.com]

I hate that argument so much. It's so full of privilege and just..people have no right to judge which situations are worse than others. (Especially if they're not involved.) >:|

[meleth.livejournal.com]

"You women, stop your bitching. At least we aren't raping you and setting you on fire on a regular basis. Do you want that? Do you? Then sit down and play nice."

[meleth.livejournal.com]

Oh shit, sorry if this comment was triggering to anyone. I'll delete it if it was.

[phoenixwriter.livejournal.com]

To silence people and to say...hey we are doing something even if we know its not enough, why feel bad about it if there countries do much less?

It is , pardon, stubid argument to compare one country with others considered Australia isn't Zimbabwe, doesn't have similar problems to keep even their healty folk well paid.

In Germany we have similar people who argue things like this...however I'm of the opinion we're not any other country and I think we can manage that everyone can lead a life without to worry about money...we are afterall rich enough. There shouldn't be anybody who has to worry wether they have enough money to get their medicine, food, a nice home and all this things one needs to feel save.

That guy should be ashamed of himself to compare his country to a third world country eventhough he knows damn well his country can do su much better then it is doing now.

[hotclaws.livejournal.com]

You have disability payments because people stood up and protested,keep on doing it.The argument is specious ,it's like saying goldfish don;t get social security;apples and oranges.

[babalon-93.livejournal.com]

Well said. This tactic has no logical basis and is exactly what you call it out as--a derailer and a silencer.

Go you! I love it when you refuse to shut the fuck up. As always you have my full support and stand-up-on-a-chair-cheering admiration :)

[mirrorred-star.livejournal.com]

But you don't live in either of those places. And the disability situation is probably better elsewhere as well. That argument is inherently meaningless.

Any typos are to be blmd n mallfunctig ybord. Shit!

[shantari.livejournal.com]

Such a tactic has much a place in debating as evoking Godwin's law does, in fact it's pretty much the same thing: You take something that's completely off topic and try to make it the new topic by either relating or comparing it to your opponent's views in a way that leaves no doubt that the person should feel ashamed for this connection, in this case for even daring to think they have it bad when things could be so much worse. Interestingly their own side in the original debate becomes forgotten as long as they prove the opponent wrong.

And all things considered, even if we were to disregard the potential veiled threat, it's still not an arguement: Just because things could be a lot worse, it does not mean that things can'tshouldn't be better. It is in human nature to desire improvement, complacency leads not just to stagnation but also to ruin. If you're not prepared to change for the better, what do you do when things get worse?