The world is rife with assholes.

[logansrogue]

I would like to think that I'm not one of them. This morning there were two young couriers at the door, and both of them were Asian. They looked to be some sort of SE Asian country, like Korea or Singapore. One was training the other how to use the courier device thingo, and he slipped into their language in front of me. Sheepishly, he covered his mouth and said, "Sorry, I speak English, I am just training him."

I blinked and realised he had apologised for speaking his first language. In a multicultural country?! I said, "No, no, that's fine. You can speak any language you want around me." I sign the little machine. "People that get angry about people speaking other languages here are assholes. My Dad's German and he never spoke German around me, so I don't know much German. It bites."

They laughed and then went on their way. I hope I made those young men feel a little more at home here in this country. Cause they're working, keeping the economy going, keeping the gene pool fresh, keeping people's minds fresh. They're giving so much to this society, and it kills me that people treat them badly over something as piffling and insignificant as being from another country.

Comments

[asweetdownfall.livejournal.com]

Aw, that makes me sad and die a little on the inside. :( Okay, so people aren't allowed to speak in their own language, yet they're allowed to speak English? And it's perfectly okay if others speak English yet those who don't know it can't talk in their mother tongue? Whaaaat.

I totally agree with everything you said in this post though.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

I once had a big argument with someone because she said she didn't like Asians talking in a language other than English on the bus or train because it meant she wouldn't be able to understand what they were saying, and what if they were talking about her?!!!

[zzzzsleep.livejournal.com]

Oh my god!
Why does she care what someone she doesn't know is saying about her?

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I hate it when people project their insecurities like that. The sheer entitlement makes my blood burn. Privileged assholes.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

Yeah but hers turned out to be pure simple racism really.

[stephiepenguin.livejournal.com]

I don't know how to say this!

I blinked and realised he had apologised for speaking his first language. In a multicultural country?!

You don't know it's his first language, that's very presumptuous of you. Korea is not a SEAsian country, and maybe they were from two different countries and just happened to both speak the same mutual language.

'Australia is a multicultural country' is mostly a romantic lie, really it's a white country where some of us hide out in corners and talk in various languages where we can, and then step out and know that we get shitty looks when we don't talk in English. It would be nice if everyone can speak in whatever language here (and everywhere), not just because this is allegedly a multicultural country, and I speak in languages other than english in public as often as possible because when I get that shit I don't back down, but it's, you know. It's shit.

I mean, recent examples around the place: in the US, that senator talking about how they don't have to pronounce Sotomayer's name the way she does because it's not a good American name; and okay, that's the only one specifically about language that comes to my mind but yeah.

[stephiepenguin.livejournal.com]

oh, of course, the indian students being attacked in newcastle and being advised by police to stop speaking in languages other than english in order to prevent being attacked! that's horrendous advice!

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

OH Jesus. I am so not surprised. There's a lot of victim-blaming from the police in this damned country.

Are there any organisations that are working against this bullshit? I really feel like I need to do something.

[stephiepenguin.livejournal.com]

Individual organisations (like Indian student organisations for example). Here's a post about it that includes some links: by fire fly.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

You're right, I hadn't thought about that. My apologies if I came off as ignorant. I just don't know my geography very well. Ridiculous considering this is the corner of the globe I live in. I should do something about that. I love that you call me on this stuff. Most people don't. And a lot of people are afraid of being corrected, and it's a good thing to learn the truth of things.

Sadly you're right. I was being pretty sarcastic when I said Australia is multicultural. The thing about my Dad? He tried to change himself as much as possible, because it was the sixties and everyone hated Germans (because of the war). That's why he never spoke German around the house. He tried to erase his Germanness in public and be as "Australian" as possible. Thankfully he's so painfully German that it was impossible, and I still learned a lot about the culture when I was growing up. And that's a White European culture! I cannot imagine how much worse it is for someone who is from Asia. You can't pretend. People will always "other" you and it makes me so fucking mad. Anyway, I'm preaching to the choir.

Thanks for educating me. You didn't have to, and I appreciate the effort of commenting and letting me know. *hugs*

[stephiepenguin.livejournal.com]

Nah it's cool. It's great that you're thinking about stuff, you know, not getting upset that you don't know things or that you get called on it. Learning stuff is cool.

I think a lot of people tried to change themselves when they came to Australia, and a lot of people still do. There's also a real private/public divide for a lot of people too, and it's such a shame that it's currently the way of it.

*hugs*

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

well I'm obviously racist then, because it shits me no end when people deliberately speak another language to exclude me. it's just plain rude, and incredibly common where I live. if the conversation has nothing to do with me, then they can go for it.

if people refuse to make an effort to learn the language of the country that they choose to live and work in, then I think people have every right to be angry and upset. If they speak English well enough to be understood, then again, if the conversation has nothing to do with me, then they can go for it.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

That's the thing, though. They're not doing it to exclude you. They're using the language that they can best express themselves quickly in. There's nothing wrong with accepting the fact that you have a prejudice or whatever. I mean, my only down feeling with hearing people speaking another language is the deep and sincere wish that I could speak something other than English. Unfortunately with my memory problems, I just can't master another vocabulary or grammar system.

But yeah - you shouldn't take it personally. You have no idea what kind of effort they've made to learn English. And they're not rejecting a culture or anything like that. I'm sure most immigrants are very happy to be here in Australia.

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

no, they are doing it so they don't get in trouble by the teacher, me. I know because some of the kids are aware of what certain words are, and I am aware of what other words are.

and with my dad's second wife and kids, yes it was easier for them to speak in their own language, but in front of us it was rude and exclusionary regardless of if they were speaking about us or something else.

there is a lot you can figure out by tone and body language

[flyingreptile.livejournal.com]

My Russian ex-supervisor heard some people speaking in Russian, and told them not to use "words like that", not even when they are outside Russia.

[apolla.livejournal.com]

While I agree almost entirely with Nancy, I do see your point also. My dad used to be an environmental health officer and working in London came across all sorts of people and often had to tell them things they wouldn't like.

The Polish owners of a cafe started slagging him off in Polish in front of him. What they did not know (because in their own way they were assuming things), was that his best friend since childhood was Polish and he said, in Polish, that he knew what they'd just said about him.

Interestingly, he got similar treatment in English from an Irishman once, who called my dad 'a Protestant pig of an inspector." Which would've been fine... except that this person had also made a false assumption and my dad just said "Well, you can call Bishop ***** and ask him about me if you like" because my dad is Mr Catholic.

Isn't this all about the way humans make assumptions in order to exclude other ones? The fact is, nobody should be ashamed of their place of origin - my dad was also told by my grandmother that she shouldn't teach him her native Italian because he MUST SPEAK ENGLISH - and at the same time, people shouldn't wield language as a weapon to exclude someone else.

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

correct, in reality it's no different from the cool kids in the playground having their in terms or slang to exclude others.

but while language shouldn't be used as a weapon, it is a tool of power, and English is the language of the powerbrokers in the world (at the moment). If people wish to gain power then they have to learn English (or insert other language if that's the country they deal with). I accept that people find it easier and quicker to speak in their own language, and allow it often with my EALD (pc version of ESL) students. However people have to deal with certain things that they may not like, which includes having to speak the same language as everyone else.

I do agree with Nancy's point that the poor guys should not have had to apologise for speaking another language, but I don't agree that in an English speaking country we should not expect people to speak English.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

But that's the thing - he did speak English. He slipped into another language for a minute just to explain something to his friend. I thought it was horrible that he felt bad for that.

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

yeah, that does suck

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I couldn't imagine how it would feel for you in your position. My sympathies.

[pooxs.livejournal.com]

it's not that bad for me, as it's just another kid finding another way to be disrespectful, which is one thing I have to put up with in my job.

but when it came to my Dad's second wife and her children, it was awful - I moved out because it was an unlivable situation. My Dad also ended up divorcing her for the same reason (among others).

I do think people are arseholes when they treat others that can't speak a language very well nastily, and noone should be ashamed of speaking a different language. However when the own language speakers are arrogant arseholes themselves, I have no sympathy.