Virginia Tech

[logansrogue]

I'm not the sort of person that can just ignore it when terrible things happen. But, and I know I will make a bunch of people angry when I say this, with the way things are in America this day and age, I'm really not surprised. Lots of guns in the hands of unregulated masses is going to equal random horrific deaths, no matter what the people believe in.



I know, guns don't kill people, people kill people. But I doubt this guy would have had the chance to kill the thirty-odd people if he was only armed with a hefty knife. Someone would have run him down and tackled him. He would have gotten tired. It's not as easy as shooting someone - there's a lot of aspects involved, like knowing *where* to stab someone, what kills someone the quickest or most painfully - it's more involved and you have to handle and really look into the face of your victim. You have to feel their blood. It's not disconnected like holding a gun and going 'bang bang'.

Quite simply, nothing anyone will say will convince me that civillians outside of rural or lawkeeping professions need any sort of gun or firearm. It's just NOT needed. A lot of people say there's lots of causes for this terrible crime, but the numbers could have been DRASTICLY reduced if the fucker didn't have two pistols and a fuckload of ammo to be going on with. Why? It's - it's ridiculous. It's unnecessary and pointless and just really awful.

Sure, the right to bear arms is in the American constitution, but that was drawn up in very different times, when danger was everywhere and hunting was essential for a large number of people. I don't think it's justified in this day and age and if I were American, I'd be writing a lot of letters right now.

All I can do is be glad and thankful that Australia, for the moment, is a firearm free and well controlled state. Our laws were really buckled down after the Port Arthur Massacre and I was very thankful for that indeed.

I guess the sad thing is that if you let anybody have a gun, and I mean anybody, then shit like this happens. And I'm so incredibly sorry for the families and friends of the people involved. It's just so awful that people so young and clever, with everything ahead of them, should have their lives stolen from them for selfish and stupid reasons.



My prayers are out there for anyone touched by this tragedy. May the Eternal Spirit watch over them and take them back into Its light.

Comments

[zebeckras.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know. I mean I'm *extremely* pro-gun control; I've never even touched a gun and I hope to keep it that way. The main argument that I've heard parroted around for keeping firearms legal and all that is that, if we take them away from the public, we're announcing to criminals that we're ALL unarmed. (Because obviously, criminals will all still have guns. They grow them or something.) That's an argument that is so short-sighted and reactionary that it always pisses me off; do people think that gun control is just going around and knocking on the doors of houses owned by honest citizens, and saying "you must give me your guns now", only making an effort to get the guns away from the people who *wouldn't* use them? Um - I'm sure that any actual plan for gun control would be a lot farther reaching than *that*. But there's a lot about America I just don't understand.

Anyway though - I pretty much can say that I agree with all the points you make, except I disagree when you say "with the way things are in America this day and age, I'm really not surprised." (On the other hand, I can't really disagree with that statement, since it's how you feel and not - eh, you get what I mean, right? *G*) ANYway, my point here is, I think there are levels to these things. I think it's awful that people who are disturbed can go, get guns, and do this to unsuspecting innocents. But this is so far beyond the level of violence we're used to - ONE GUY killing 31 people - that it IS surprising. The Amish shooting was surprising, because nobody thinks of the Amish as being involved with things like guns. And so on.

And no, under no circumstances would this guy - or any of these shooters - have been able to kill as many people if they hadn't had access to guns... but when you want to hurt people, you find a way to hurt as many people as you can. Some people know how to make napalm. Some people are able to poison people. Some... well, there are a lot of options for screwed-up folks, the guns are often just the easiest and quickest ones.

I am NOT, not at all, saying that "guns aren't bad, this was just a crazy guy" or anything like that. Like I said, I agree with you about gun control, 100%. But I think that there's a level to this that is so different from so much of what has gone on in the past, that we need to recognize that, without lumping it into a general gun-violence debate. (Yet. I have no doubt that is coming later.) Er, I'm sorry - I don't mean this to come off as being a lecture 'cause I'm not really arguing with you, I'm just sort of - musing aloud. In your journal. ^_^;; sorry!

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

No, it's fine, you raise some really interesting points, actually. I guess, if Americans want to know what life would be like without guns, all they have to do is look at us Aussies. I mean, outside of the professions I stated, nobody has a gun. Yeah, we're still scared of criminals but if someone breaks and enters they might take your TV and your DVD player and shit, and hey - they might even beat you if they're inclined - but their chances of killing you are decreased cause they're not generally armed with a gun either.

We still have violence at schools and stuff, but it's usually a stabbing - someone can live from a stabbing. It's awful but most times it's not lethal.

I guess, yes - this guy was really off his fucking rocker. We had the same thing here even though nobody has guns. It led to even tighter gun control. And yeah, whether there's a fucked up will, there's a way. I will agree with you there.

I guess I just feel frustrated cause there's no *reason* for someone to have a gun. Napalm, or a bomb or poison, those are things that a person would really have to go to a huge effort to create and someone might notice them buying ridiculous amounts of certain ingredients or the funny smell coming from their dorm room or whatever. If someone managed to kill a bunch of people with that, I'd be really surprised and I'd know it was someone monumentally fucked up that did it. But this? With guns? It's just something that shouldn't have happened.

So yeah. I don't disagree with you at all, it's a complicated situation and there's so many different aspects of this that I don't even fully understand cause I'm not an American. I don't know the history of the country or the culture intimately, so there's a lot of subtleties that I'm going to miss. I appreciate people illuminating me on the subject :)

[corglacier7.livejournal.com]

I agree that what happened was a tragedy--my observer partner on my last boat got her master's degree at V Tech.

I also agree that some further efforts at gun control are needed, but I think it's shortsighted to assume the strict laws would stop this sort of thing. Guns would end up lumped with stuff like heroin or prostitution. There's a demand for it, and all the laws against in the in world won't stop a black-market traffic if someone wants something bad enough. And people will keep getting shot.

Honestly, take away the guns and these murderous fuckers will just go off and build some bombs with directions off the Internet. If they're that determined to hurt someone, taking away one instrument they might use won't make them shrug and go home quietly.

And while guns are a problem, I believe most homeowners would object to being stripped of the right to buy a handgun for self-defense in the case of a home invasion. Also, there's a big segment of the population in some states like Minnesota, Montana, and Alaska that hunt for sport and/or food, and a very, very large associated revenue from taxes and licensing of hunters used for the betterment of that particular state. Alaska in particular with its large native population is very dependent upon income from hunters.

Also, you run into the problem in the US of the ironclad Second Amendment right to bear arms. Amending the Constitution, as every American schoolchild knows, is big business, particularly when you're talking about the original Bill of Rights.

Not saying that we don't need to reexamine the gun issue soberly and thoroughly, but I think saying "Let's ban guns!" is naive and a solution that probably is not possible in the US.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I already discussed this with someone else. It's not naive. In a modern society, people just don't need guns. We don't have guns here in Australia outside of hunting, rural uses and lawkeeping. We still have violence and we still have drugs and home invasions but there's a lot less people dying and certainly no people dying in drive-by shootings who shouldn't have died and so forth. People that are in the criminal underworld usually find ways to die. Here, innocent bystanders are far less likely to die.

So is my entire country naive? Because we chose not to have guns in our society?

[esicardi.livejournal.com]

Umm, I think it is true that a gun made things easier for the killer, but even with a knife you can do a lot of damage if you are crazy enough.
I remember some years ago a man did a massacre in a kindergarden in Japan killing several kids and a teacher with only a knife.
Sadly, the true is that crazy guys like those are difficult to prevent.
:-(

[esicardi.livejournal.com]

ETA: I totally agree that guns should be controlled, though.
Just that I think that when this is a step in the right direction, it is not enough to avoid this kind of stuff. :(

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Well, several and thirty-three are quite different in numbers. The first is just tragic but it's a much lower number, isn't it?

Yeah, crazy guys - you can't prevent that. :(

[strangedave.livejournal.com]

Some people will try to tell you that if everyone had had guns, he would have got a lot less than 31 before someone shot back, as if this would actually be a solution. This is because some people are crazy.

It is true that for America it would be an enormous task to stuff the evil gun genie back in the bottle, and it would perhaps take a long time before gun control started to really get results. Thats a reason to get started, not a reason to never do it, though.

I read this, knowing that Jamie Bishop, who had once been such a nice kid enjoying a happy childhood, had grown up (into an equally nice man, by all accounts), and then been shot dead (just one of many). Every single murder is a tragedy.

[originalnilson.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying that Dave. It's good hear some common sense.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

It is. *hugs Dave* My sane, happy Buddha friend!

[mexicanjewlizrd.livejournal.com]

What about places like Israel, Switzerland or Singapore?

Its fine to bash the USA for having a bunch of uneducated people with guns (which is bad), but what about countries with compulsory military service? Please correct me if I am wrong, but guns are widely held in these countries - by trained people. Crime is apparently quite low. *shrug*

[musicteacher.livejournal.com]

This is my alma mater and it is so hard to comprehend that this has occurred. Being an American and somewhat conservative, I agree we NEED stricter gun laws. Our society glamorizes violence way too much. Video games and movies make it the cool thing to devalue human life. This nut and other nuts that have no regard for their life or others will find a way to devastate our lives with or without guns.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree on your final point. Guns are just so easy, though, and they needn't be. Which is my point.

I'm so sorry for the tragedy that's befallen your uni. My heart's with you.

[nevermore82.livejournal.com]

Trust me, I'm not one of those that'll get mad at you for saying that. I agree with you. Even though my husband has his gun liscense and enough in the way of an arsenal to make sure him and his are safe.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I'm glad. I knew people would get upset at me, though. It's times like this that you realise that even though we both speak English, the people of America and Australia really are foreign to each other. The culture is quite different. I could never imagine my father casually having a gun. We have a cricket bat by the door. That's our self defence.

[http://users.livejournal.com/lothar_/]

A lot of people here, mostly rural men, feel very strongly about having the option to own firearms, be it for hunting, defense, or if we have to revolt against the government effectively...again. Those who would rather have stricter gun laws OTOH just don't vote on this issue because they're more concerned with poverty, health care, the environment, getting out of Iraq, and other matters. The last time the Democrats got anti-gun legislation through, they lost Congress for 12 years because they made a lot of gun owners nervous.

However anyone feels about this, I and a lot of other people who want to see the left win elections are staying far, far away from this issue. It won't rally the leftist base, and it will kill any chance of us remaining in power. Look at it this way; at least background checks for prior criminality or mental instability will still be in place if the left is running things.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised that you don't have background checks in place! I mean - you're giving someone a gun, for God's sakes! Yeesh.

I remember when I was staying in LA the second time that the police had cordoned off one of the streets a few blocks from where I was staying. Apparently there'd been a drive-by. Everyone in the car took it very casually, sighing with irritation and finding an alternate route home.

I stared at them in shock and went, "Does that happen a lot here?"

They shrugged and explained that they thought it was awful but what can they do? It was at that point that I really, really missed Australia. LOL. I felt safe cause the family was sane and lovely, but it still shook me that a shooting happened so close to where I was staying. It was a neighbourhood full of families.

Point of the story being, I understand how this sort of thing is deeply ingrained in the culture over there.

[angriest.livejournal.com]

America is a once-great nation that's slid gradually and almost irrevocably into insanity. I'm extremely sad for the victims and their families, but am not surprised. Not even in the slightest. Which of course makes me sadder, but on the other side of the planet and with no influence on American culture, there's little I can do.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Word and word. :(

[asweetdownfall.livejournal.com]

Australians have more sense than Americans...:(

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

We still say and do stupid things, there are more racists here than I am comfortable with (I'd be comfortable with *none* but that's never going to happen) but at least the stupid people aren't armed. *sigh*

[greenforest-elf.livejournal.com]

All I can say is thank fuck I live in Australia and thank fuck our government has the brains to keep guns out of every day peoples (and looneys) hands.

Its interesting to see what countries have what gun control laws and the instance of mass shootings.... u just dont get that in place like Oz or NZ.

Ive seen some docos on guns and the laws in the US and I think it is just digusting that it is so easy for anyone to be armed.

Apparently you dont need any checks or licenses in some parts of the US if you buy your guns at a gun show WTF????

I wonder if they even need to keep fireamrs in gun cabinets or if its ok for mum and dad to store a killing machine under their bed!!!

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

They can keep their guns wherever they want! It's their right!

So glad I live in Australia!

[originalnilson.livejournal.com]

I'm not suprised to see Americans saying "But the bad guys have guns, so we need guns" or "But we already have guns and laws saying that we can have guns and it would be so hard to reverse this". I see these as weak statements. Things can change, yes it will be hard but something can be done. It's easier for Australia because we didn't really start out with much guns so making a law banning them wasn't that difficult. I understand the fear and anxiety that bringing in anti-gun laws would cause the American public. It's important that you weigh all the problems guns cause against any good they do(ha). Don't just think about the bad guys getting killed. Think about children that were killed in their own homes because they found a parent's gun. Think about hold ups, gang and drive by shootings, and highschool shootings. Violent people may have caused those last few but they all involved guns. Taking away guns won't make these crimes go away, but it will make it bloody harder for them to do as much damage. I've heard people say "But take away guns and they'll find something else". Hello? WHAT do they prodominately use? They use other weapons sure, but you can't say it wouldn't make a dent in crime. Especially highschool shootings. Kids won't be able to get they're hands on guns anywhere NEAR as easily. I dunno people. Think what you will. My closing statement is guns are fucking stupid and you're fools if you think that they will solve anything.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I love my sister.

[mexicanjewlizrd.livejournal.com]

It was an awful thing to have happen.

The rest of this post reads like PR for a politician.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Great. Why don't you fuck off, then? I'm serious. Just fuck off.