Interesting stuff...

[logansrogue]

I'm thinking of doing a drawing and I thought Lilith might be an interesting subject. I was reading about her and there's lots of negative things about her and it's disappointing because she's so sure of herself and I like that about her. It's typical that she had to be made evil, isn't it? Stupid men of old and their insecurities. Her stories are the very embodiment of that, really. Fear of the sexual woman.

I love this line:

Men who experienced nocturnal emissions during their sleep believed they had been seduced by Lilith and said certain incantations to prevent the offspring from becoming demons. It was thought each time a pious Christian had a wet dream, Lilith laughed.

Oh man, Lilith ain't the only one laughing! *giggle-snort*

Okay. So - what do you know of Lilith? What cool things have you to tell me? Share, I'd like to know!

ETA: http://www.lilitu.com/lilith/khephtoday.html I like this woman's views on Lilith. Very awesome!

Comments

[berenicepotter.livejournal.com]

Who is Lilith? *curious*

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Very simply, Lilith was in very old Jewish and Christian texts. She was supposed to be the first wife of Adam, made from the dust as he was. She refused to be subserviant in bed (she didn't want to go bottom - literally) and so Adam got mad and she up and left him. She went to the red sea and had heaps of babies by demons, and God said, "Oi! Back to Adam!"

"No way!" she replied, "I'm happy having demon babies and having demon sex."

So God sends three of his angel homies - Semoi, Sansemoi and Semmasomething. Forget the name. Anyway. They go up to her and say, "Hey, go back to Adam or God will kill your babies."

"Nuh-uh!" replies Lilith. "I'm not going back to that dope!"

"Okay," says the angels. "We're totally going to have to drown you now." And they proceed to do so.

"AAARGH! No, *cough* stop! Okay, how about a deal?" asks Lilith. "I'll only kill the babies *without* the amulet bearing the name of you three angel guys. And the babies are only vulnerable on the first week if it's a boy, and the first 21 days if it's a girl. Are we cool?"

"Hmm, okay, we won't drown you," say the angels. "But we're still killing your babies."

"That's fine," says Lilith, "I'm still killing yours."

Hence Lilith is a night demon that eats babies. Because of her upright and self-confident nature, she has different meanings in different religions. I'm pretty sure she's much more of a positive character in Gnosticism, but I might be wrong.

[berenicepotter.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow. Thanks for the information! That was very...educative *grins* *hugs*

[shimmiwyld.livejournal.com]

First wife of Adam, mirrors are windows to her world (think Alice in Wonderland/Jabberwocky), was thought by Christians as the 'Snake' in the Adam and Eve legend and in another legend had the power to shape-shift into a snake. She had markings on her face (some tribal writing... can't remember what it meant).

In one story: God made Adam and Lilith as siamese twins (joined at the back). Apparently she wanted to be equal and left Adam when he went all 'Psycho-Dom-Male' on her and slept with Satan. Feh... whatever.

Frankly, I see more stories of her as a 'succubus'-type with the ability to shape-shift. Apparently she favoured the woods and trees.

S'about all I know. Sorry.

[joxerfan.livejournal.com]

All I know about Lilith is here (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/1034/18882iheartprettypeople.jpg) and here (http://www.geocities.com/frasier_luver/frasier_lilith.jpg). ;)

(Although I think she eventually became the White Witch in the Narnia books, did she not?)

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

I really do love that particular Lilith. She's the only person other than his father and brother to tell him the truth about himself. LOL!

[joxerfan.livejournal.com]

I think my favorite Lilith Stern-Crane moment came when the gang had returned to the bar following the funeral of someone they all know, and everyone is sad, except for Frasier. When he is asked why, he replies that as a man of science, he sees death as a natural event, and he refuses to picture death as a pale, ghastly ghoul who lays its bony hand upon your shoulder and tells you that it's time to go.

At that moment, Lilith comes up from behind, lays her hand on his shoulder and says "It's time to go Frasier," causing him to scream and leap from his seat! "God, put on some make-up, will you!" he cries. ;)


Second best Lilith moment was in "Frasier," where she visits Seattle, and somehow they end up spending the night together in her hotel room. The next morning room service arrives, and before they dig in, she says "This isn't right, Frasier." He explodes with "Thank heavens you agree - I didn't know how to say it ... we were just swept away by the moment, and by our passions..." etc. etc. When he finishes, she simply says "No, I meant I had ordered my eggs poached not scrambled."

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Teeheehee. Good moments all! She's a total crack up. Do you ever watch her on that new Law and Order show?

[joxerfan.livejournal.com]

I've seen bits of it here and there, when I was waiting for something else to come on. Those "Law and Order" shows don't do much for me - the plots all seem remarkably similar: ripped from the headlines, with exactly three red herrings leading into each commercial break, culminating in the real killer almost getting away with a double-double cross that almost outwits the legal system. I will sometimes watch them if there is a guest star I like... most of the leads though are pretty good actors that I've enjoyed in other roles (Bebe Neuwirth, Vincent D'Onofrio, the late Jerry Orbach, Sam Waterston, etc.)

With Neuwirth, I always expect her to suddently let her hair down in a cascade, and reveal a teddy under her severe business suit, as Lilith often did!

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

LOL. Jerry Orbach was my favourite. I'd watch just to hear the funny one-liners he'd pull. Christoper Meloni fulfills that role for me now.

[http://users.livejournal.com/incomplet_/]

Oh man, Lilith ain't the only one laughing!

LOLith, even.

*hides*

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Oh that was a pun from hell! I congratulate you!

[mollymoon.livejournal.com]

Lilith (or more correctly, Lilitu/Liltu), was originally a foreign demon that the ancient Hebrews adopted during their servitude. She was responsible for male nocturnal emissions (an illusion to her once being a fertility goddess) and the death of babies in the cradle, from which the amulet in the cradle comes from, to protect the babies. Though it is disputed as to whether the amulet that was placed in the cradles was to protect against her, or invoke her protection... that's what happens when you adopt other peoples gods... it all gets confuzzled.

When she was adopted into Hebrew myth, she became the first wife of Adam. Evidence of this is still in Genesis, (paraphrase as its early morning) And He created Them, Man and Woman. This line, pointing to a single instance of creation rather than Adam being created first and Eve second (which is explained after due to Adam's loneliness) is the only evidence that remains of Lilith in non-epocraphyl texts.

Outside of the Bible/Torah, we are told that indeed, Lilith and Adam were created at the same time and were equal. Adam got it into his head that he was above Lilith and refused to have sex other than in the missionary position. Adam went to God and filed a complaint. God sent Angels to force Lilith to be fruitful and multiply.

Lilith, rather than suffer rape, used the knowledge that God had given Adam in the Cipher-Ha-Zohar (Book of Light) or Cipher Razael (Book of Razael; the Angel who delivered the book) and by speaking the true name of God, was able to stop the angels from attacking her. She then left Eden with the book in her keeping. An action which forced Adam to pass on the knowledge of the Book of Light to his sons orally, which is what became Kabbalah, though parts of it have been lost through the ages.

After leaving Eden, she is said to have mated (or seduced) with one of the fallen Angels (not necessarily Lucifer; the myth of Shemhazai fits with Lilith as well) and spawned legions of demons, or Djinn or Nephilim. She was the first witch and is seen in modern times as the first feminist, thus the adoption of her as the symbol for the concerts "Lilith Fair".

She is also called Mother of Demons, Vengeful Fury, Darkest Seductress, Queen of the Djinn, and Goddess of the Gate. Her myth is also often associated with vampires.

(Why, yes, I am obsessed with this myth. Aside from the spellings of certain names, all of this is off the top of my head at eight fricking a.m. I've long considered writing a novel of alternate history, from Lilith's PoV.)

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

That would be so cool if you did! That'd fucking rock. I like these Lilith ideas, I'm very tempted to write a comic about it, or write it INTO my existing comic (the Muse).

[bcp.livejournal.com]

"...is the only evidence that remains of Lilith in non-epocraphyl texts"

Isaiah 34:14?

"tsiyiy pagash 'iy sa`iyr qara' rea` liyliyth raga` matsa' manowach" (literal translation: "yelpers meet-[perfect] howlers; hairy-ones cry-[imperfect] to fellow. liyliyth reposes-[perfect], acquires-[perfect] resting-place.")

[originalnilson.livejournal.com]

Lilith, woot! I think the Lilith myths are so cool. I did some drawings too. I'll probably do some more, she is an endless source of inspiration.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

She's cool, isn't she? I'm so lonely. :( Mum and Dad aren't here and neither is Scotty.

[cedargrove.livejournal.com]

This is all very interesting - particularly as I'm embroiled in writing "Prophesy of Angels" at the moment.

[fyrdrakken]

I have nothing much to add to the above, aside from posting with my Lilith icon.

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Hee! It's awesome. :)